Interview with Mui Ho, by Marcello Bastéa-Forte, January 2008

Since starting Mui Ho Architect at Berkeley in 1979, Mui Ho has become known for her community building projects in the Bay Area. She teaches at UC Berkeley, and also works in China, where she has designed a series of buildings for a community college.

BASTÉA-FORTE: How did you become interested in community design?

HO: When I first moved out to California, several groups here were interested in improving public housing using government funding, and I thought that would be good to try because I would learn a different kind of practice, designing not for people with a lot of money, but for people who needed it. I found that the people interested in public housing did not have a design background. They were all socially, politically, and economically astute. It was a whole different ballpark, you deal with different kinds of people, you talk to them differently, and you have lots of community meetings. You have to talk to the whole neighborhood. I learned a very different kind of architecture.

Europe and America train architects to design egotistical buildings that represent themselves instead of designing for the people. You are not building community design concepts to glorify your creation, you are creating something for the community. But at the same time, it is your creative work and you can still represent yourself. Because the prices are lower, they are not the kind of buildings you want to photograph and send all over the world. That's why community design architects don't have projects that people talk about a lot.

BASTÉA-FORTE: How did you start practicing architecture in China?

HO: My brother and his friends who had been educated abroad wanted to start a second-tier community college in the 70s. At that time, China had about 45 universities and most people could not get into college. When I saw what they were doing, I said, I can really help you guys. You can’t just put buildings down. They were following the dormitory design of the central government. Every building in China has to be designed by the Beijing Architectural Institute. It hires 5000 people in one building, you wouldn’t believe it! And they send the design to you with no regard for local climate, wind, site condition, and culture. They’re all cookie cutter: corridor, room-room-room. Wrong orientation, every building was pump-pump-pump. You know, the Communist thing.

They built three of the standard Chinese university dormitory design. Each room was for 12 students and had six bunkers. I looked at it and I saw the bathrooms were down the hall, the shower house was outside. For the fourth dormitory, I talked them into changing the room to be for six people and to free up space for private baths. I modified the plan so they would have an open corridor to bring in air and a balcony for laundry. It was the same design; I just lengthened it by 5 feet. The students loved the new dorm and then I got my job. I convinced the administration to build apartments for students. Then I designed the central administration office, the gym, the clinic, and am now working on the lecture hall auditorium.

BASTÉA-FORTE: Were they inspired by your work?

HO: They did not understand the design on paper but once it was built, they really appreciated what I had done, a building that answers to their needs and spaces that are interesting and not the standard design they see everywhere. I raised the standard. And then! My biggest contribution, I made them plant trees all over the campus. Beautiful walks outside, gardening. You really need that balance of architecture and planting. The foliage softens the building. Most architects just design the building and ignore the environment. I’m not that kind of architect. I consider the path. I even control the night lights! How can you expect students to walk at night with those tall, 30 foot highway lights? I made all the lights pedestrian height—10 feet—and shining down. All these are matters of scale.

BASTÉA-FORTE: How do you work with people who consider design as extravagance?

HO: You explain to them that design is a process of making a better building. It’s not just making a prettier building. It’s making a building that works, that can last, and has value. That’s what the design process is about. Anyone can build a building for you with all these rooms. But they don’t necessarily understand what you expect or what you want. When I changed the dormitories' design, it was not because that was the only way to do it. I said that within your budget, your constraints, I can make it better. Just that little bit.

BASTÉA-FORTE: What kind of obstacles do you face from clients and building practices in China?

HO: Did you know every time you flush a toilet or use a sink there is a very small pipe in the wall to let out sewer gas to the roof? That’s why the toilet doesn’t smell, because the sewer gas doesn’t come back in, it escapes through the pipe. It’s inside every building. When China started installing modern toilets in their hotels, the contractors said, "What is this silly pipe doing there, we don’t need it!" They said, "Why waste that iron pipe. We don’t have enough resources." That’s why all the old Chinese houses and hotels smell of sewage. Because the sewer gas comes back to everybody’s toilet, all the bathrooms smell of it. It’s that simple. This is basic stuff. I have to argue a lot with the builders and train them.

BASTÉA-FORTE: What would you say is the biggest thing you’ve learned from working in China?

HO: Well, [laughs] the biggest thing I've learned in China is that the Chinese can do things so efficiently, so fast. In America, a building that’s the size of the administrative building usually takes about three years of design and three or four years of construction. In China they did it in one year. I designed it in six months, they finished in about one year. They work very hard, very fast. Right before I finished designing, they already were pounding the foundation. I thought it was really pretty remarkable. And it was very satisfying. In one year I went back and my building was sitting there.